Transcribed by: Jonelle Boateng

Zoe: Hey everyone! It’s Zoe, the CEO and founder of necessary behavior. Welcome to the first edition of the sex ed portion of lemonade. 

London: Hi, I’m London, I’m part of the editorial team. 

Bethany: Hi, my name is Bethany and I am a multimedia staff member. 

Zoe: Today, in the podcast, we’re talking about everything that went wrong during sex ed, everything that we didn’t want to hear and everything that we definitely had to learn later in life. Bethany: So I can start, I have a great story from when I was a youngin. So my mom was the worst person to ask about anything sexual or reproductive ever. Her favorite answer was like “Well, why don’t you know?” So like one time when I was really little, um elementary school age, I asked my mom, I was like “Mom, how can you pee with a tampon in?” So now the appropriate response to a child would be, well a tampon goes in the vaginal canal, while you pee out of your urethra, you know? And she said, “Well why would it?”

Zoe: Yeah, why would it?

Bethany: I’m like what is a nine-year-old supposed to do with that information? “Why would it?” I don’t know, that’s why I’m asking, like. I just think she didn’t know and was too embarrassed to tell me.

Zoe: I am so glad my mother was totally different. I was so lucky and I feel like this definitely shaped me into the person that I am now and like I don’t know help me bring this wild, crazy place that I call Necessary Behavior alive because all of my sex ed like started super, super young with my mom. Um, my school years, very different, very different. My mother was really good about, you know, being pro masturbation, pro “be with whoever you want to be with”, pro like “don’t always sleep with the same gender”, pro, you know, pro everything and I think I have yet to meet anyone who is raised under those kind of standards and you know I think it’s so important for kids to have that. 

Bethany: Yeah, especially with our age. I feel like we still have the parents that were a little bit like “sex was still tongue in cheek” maybe that was just me, like my mom grew up Mormon and my dad grew up Catholic. And while I wasn’t super hard-core raised either of those ways, it definitely like bled into the parenting. It’s not that they acted like the question was shameful, it was they would either act like I should know the answer already or they would deliberately explain it in a jargon filled way so I wouldn’t know what they were saying. 

Zoe: Of course. 

London: Yeah, I kind of had the same experience. It was never really explained to me, anything I had to learn I kind of had to figure out on my own with the tools of the internet, like my parents never told me more than I needed to know. The only conversation I’ve ever had with my parents about anything that has to do with like sex education is I got my period I was like “Ma, I got my period” And she was like “here’s some pads.” and that’s like the extent of my sex education as a child. And like even when I started wearing tampons, I had to like do that myself with the internet. And when my mom found out, she just totally freaked out, she was like “Are you having sex?” “No, I just want to use tampons because they’re easier for me.” And I just had to figure it out myself. I was scared and I was like fifteen texting my friends like “I don’t know what to do.”  “Where does it go?” because no one ever taught me anything about it. It was horrible.

Bethany: I know so many girls where they were like ”Oh, do you have a tampon? My mom won’t let me have them.” That’s a piece of cotton to like absorb blood. Like it is the unsexiest thing ever. It’s like buying band-aids, okay, like I don’t understand. 

London: No, it’s literally the worst. I remember this one time when I was in high school and this dude was like ”Is wearing a tampon like being fingered?” and we were like “….What?” 

Bethany: If it is, you’re doing it wrong. 

London: Like what? No, it is so bad, how like uneducated just like everyone is because it’s such a stigmatized conversation that everyone is just scared and confused when it’s really not that necessary. 

Bethany: Yeah, it’s so like natural in whatever. Like it should really just be one of the first conversations. I feel like there’s so many boys that just don’t understand. I remember my father, who’s like you know, a grown man, telling me that, um, my period was no different than pooping. I still don’t understand the comparison, I try and think about how they’re similar sometimes and I still don’t get it, I’m like “No, no I don’t really think so”

Zoe: I mean like stigma wise, it should be. 

Bethany: I mean right, like it should totally be treated like that, like. I made a comment, kinda jokingly about like my insides falling out and he was like ”Why are you complaining? It’s like no different than pooping. 

Zoe: It would be so easy if it was. 

Bethany: Right, like you could hold it, you can get it on one go and call it. 

Zoe: It could be so easy, but it’s not. I had a couple friends that I was growing up in high school. In high school, who their parents were so anti-tampon it was like and I just and my mom again just pro everything was obviously pretty like pro tampon like I think I wore a pad once and I was like I can’t do it I can feel blood out of my body like it’s dripping and I don’t like it. And um like my mom was like ”Yeah, like you’re good like I’m definitely not gonna go into like the bathroom with you” which I found out parents that will enter the bathroom with their children and like will put the tampon up inside of them. Like and I’m like okay, you know what, I think that’s a good experience ehh. 

Bethany: It sounds super weird, but I know this girl who we talked her through putting in a tampon right. And she put it in, she was talking about it hurting. It was because she didn’t take it out of the applicator, she just shoved the whole thing up there.

Zoe: No, no! 

Bethany: As like disturbing as that sounds, cause I’m like I would not want to be that parent, like putting a tampon in my child, but I think it’s better than that. Like if you really don’t know how to explain it, I feel like you should probably just explain it really well.  

Zoe: Yeah. 

Bethany: Maybe some visuals, like get the tampon and show-

Zoe: Yeah

Bethany: -them how it works. 

Zoe: Yeah, I feel like there’s gotta be like a pretty solid YouTube video out there somewhere with like, they have these really cute um really neat, clear like like vaginal models, where you can see like you put the tampon up here, then you remove the applicator and then you remove it like later like whatever like that is so easy. But I also feel like you know it’s not like YouTube was really a thing when I was younger. I mean it was, but it was still like “Charlie bit my finger” and like “Charlie the unicorn” and like  everything else. So there was not really like a plethora of educational videos but 

Bethany: Well um American girl dolls, I don’t know why, they are like on top of the sex ed thing. But I was looking through them just to see like what the content was and they are like on top of the sex ed thing. I was looking through them just to see what the content was and the American girl book actually had like an illustrated image of the girl like opening her vagina and putting a tampon in and I was like “oh shit” like these might be of value. And they’re all written in like child friendly way, like those are specifically written for those age groups. There is stuff out there and they’re like “no no no I can tell them myself, it’s fine, I know everything.”

Zoe: I just it just doesn’t make sense to me. Like how can you be a parent and then just be like “I know what’s best for your bleeding body.”

Bethany: Most parents assume that they know their children better than their children know themselves. 

Zoe: Right, you should encourage your child to trust their body from a very, very, very early age and like you don’t always know what’s best for everyone. Well like if you, okay, if you are a parent, I’m not a parent so take this with a grain of salt, but if you’re a parents and you’re listening, don’t police your children’s bodies, just please don’t do it. Like if no one has told you that already, don’t fucking do it. 

Bethany: Im a parent, don’t police your children in fucking general honestly. 

London: Your child will be good, like the lack of education is where we really mess up. Things you don’t want to happen, will happen if you’re trying to keep information from them cause I was just having this conversation with a friend of mine and like we’re still like we have friends and we’re still kind of in this age where our parents are like “you can’t do this, you can’t do that because I don’t want you having sex, I don’t want you getting pregnant, I don’t want you doing this.” And it’s kind of like you can’t police your child like that, you can’t control call them like at the end of the day if they want to do something they’re going to do it. So just educate them, the best that you can and that’s all you can really do.

Zoe: Yeah, yeah no that’s like how it was raised and like, I don’t know I was a pretty, I turned out pretty well, I could say. I mean, I still am only 21, but like I think I did pretty well I think my mom did a really solid job raising me and I think that like I got all my ducks in a line and like it shows when you have really really strict tight parents it shows. And I think especially to like when kids like go out to college and stuff, like that, to like the ones who always just like hit it, I feel like most more often than not our kids that had really really strict parents were like if you, you know, there’s just this point in life where I think like you  get to this new stage and you’re like “I don’t have this person over me and I don’t, I can make my own decisions and I don’t have to listen to this other person like I can finally be myself” and then you just have this like growing up way too quickly and like trying to do everything that you were probably supposed to do for the past like 5, 7 you know 10 years for your stand and he ends up like “let’s do it all right now” and it’s like the first year just like “what is happening? my grades are failing I don’t know what’s going on.”

Bethany: You haven’t taught your children how to handle those situations. Parents like to parent, thinking of the best case scenario but you really need to parent your children thinking of the worst case scenarios. Like okay, you love to think that your child is gonna save them selves until marriage and be with one person ever and blah blah blah heterosexual dreams but the reality of the situation is like there is a chance your child could be a slut I’m sorry there is. Your child could, no yeah, he could have a flavor of the week, she could have a flavor of the - you don’t know. And it’s just like they, they like to think that their children will be children forever and they’re not. And in a lot of cases, even they worry that they’re telling their children things that are too adult for them and “Oh they’ll learn when they’re older” which you know never happens. But the thing is, that’s really unsafe actually like we do our mandated reporter training and one of the big ways that they target kids is cause kids don’t know how to tell you what’s happening, they don’t have the vocabulary to discuss like how they’ve been abused and they prey on that because if they have the language to be like “hey he touched this” or “he did that” or you have the language to speak up language to speak up. that’s really something that parents don’t realize they’re leaving their kids vulnerable like that. 

Zoe: I um, so one of my first certifications is in sex ed specific from ages like 3 to 8. One of the best classes that I’ve ever taken and it literally was like a full day thing and I went super last minute like the day before and this is back when I worked, um, in a sexual assault advocacy agency and the person I was working with who is um like doing a lot of prevention at the time, she’s “like yeah, you know I have another space in my car like if you wanna come with, like I’m sure the person has no issue” and I was like “yes I’m coming like that just sounds so amazing” and we learned all about like the importance of teaching people like how to recognize how their bodies are because like it’s one of those things to it like especially with child abuse like you have to know the parts of your body because you can’t say what’s going on if you’re not like taught like if you’re not taught that, you know? And so if you’re given, you know, 20 names to talk about your vulva but like none of them are vulva. You know? You could, you could be saying something totally different and someone’s gonna have no idea and like parents will fight it so hard to not have sex start that young. I mean even then like - did you guys ever have the whole, you know, in middle school where you got like split into like boys room, girls room and like girls room you learned about periods in like the boys room, I don’t know what they learned about. 

London: No, the separation of like gender and like sexual education is so bad cause it’s like if you want this heterosexual narrative, why aren’t you teaching both genders about the opposite one? Cause there’s, I feel like, especially if you’re going to be interacting sexually with that organ you should know about it. And it just sucks how many people just don’t know about the other gender just because it’s just so taboo it’s like “oh you don’t you don’t need to know that” like  you do, you do, you do need to know that. I’m so young so a lotta, lotta, lotta boys and men, my age they know nothing and I’m like “Why would I let you touch me if you don’t even know what you’re touching?”

Zoe: Literally. Like my clitoris is not on my ankle. It is not a record player, my dude it really isn’t. It’s not that hard. I and like…it should be just common knowledge, you know? If we can talk about her arm and like know that like this is my finger this is my hand and I have a palm and I have an elbow and I have a shoulder like you should probably be able to like recognize the parts of the reproductive body system. Like it is another system in your body, we all have them. Like it would be so much easier and I think even just going back to like the conversation periods like, you know, I think men are so scared about periods because if you roll it back to whenever it’s like they were split into different classrooms and like they were never taught about periods, you know? And so then it was just kind of this like hush-hush like don’t talk about it kind of topic and it never grew past that unless someone you know had a parent or a partner or a sibling that was like “Hey, you need to be a better person…here’s a box of tampons you can keep in your cabinet for like whoever.” 

London: Yes

Bethany: I think that was a great point. Like in such a hetero-normative society, you think they really would be teaching boys about girls. That should be like the new argument. I’m gonna start telling Republicans that, I’m gonna be like “oh no they need to stop separating them for sex ed cause that’s what makes them gay. You teach all the boys…

[laughter]

Bethany: That's why they’re all gay now. 

Zoe: Right, I’m pretty sure that like non-heterosexual sex like actual like like physical sex has the highest rates of orgasms. And like, you just can’t match that with heterosexual anything like unmatched. I'm like dang like once you know about the body system, it’s pretty easy from there. 

Bethany: Yeah, so I’m bisexual so I’ve been with girls before and it’s like there’s no learning curve.  There’s no, there’s no what’s this part do? What’s this part do? You’re like I get in here and I know everything. You’re like - it’s like getting into your own car versus getting into someone else’s. You’re like aw I know exactly how this baby drives, like I got it. 

Zoe: Absolutely. 

London: The rate at which same-sex couples get way more sexual pleasure I watched a documentary on it and like it’s so much higher it’s so much higher, it’s ridiculous. And then people want to come around and tell us to be heterosexual. Like boys step up your game, cause they’re the ones that have the most problems with it, so you guys need to step up your game. 

Bethany: I think so much of it comes from the fact that women are socialized like not to ask. It’s easy to blame straight dudes for it like ”dude figure your shit out, you’re grown” And they should, to an extent, absolutely. But if the guys actually like open to learning I feel like that’s okay. I think there is a big problem with women being afraid to say what they want though too. Um which is which is part of the whole patriarchal bullshit thing that we teach girls that they can’t be sexual. We tell boys from day one “oh yeah you’re gonna be chasing the skirts” like “using women like left and right” you know and the girls it’s like “okay keep a pillow between your knees you know” So by the time they like get old they can’t really shake off these feelings. Like I have a bunch of friends that like save themselves until marriage and like that’s super cool like if that’s what you plan on doing. But in other cases, there were some very religious ties for some of them. I mean some of them it was like-you can tell the difference, you know I mean? I always wonder like you never lived with that person and you’re marrying them. Like you’re marrying someone you’ve never like slept in the same-not even like have sex like you’ve never slept in the same bed with them like. I think there’s like saving yourself for someone and I think that’s like-there’s a good honorable thing to that, like if that something that you truly believe in like rock on, do your thing. But it’s just like I’m like how do you even know how to be a wife like you’ve never lived with them like you don’t know how to really be their partner. 

Zoe: It like sets you up for failure almost because then you’re not able to like okay well actually this isn’t working and like you could literally decide that in like two days and you’re just like oh I don’t know about this one. Yeah, like it’s just, you know I think it’s really good to like kind of experiment and like try it out because like if you can’t stand them for like I know like more than 24 hours it’s navy not be marrying them 

Bethany: There are There are more serious things that do cause divorce that you don't know until you live with someone like how do they feel about division of labor? How do they feel about using each other's finances? How do they feel about kids like, and there's conversations you can have, but you don't really know until you're in those situations with people?

Zoe: Yeah, yeah. Well on how much is it just like, I'm telling you this so you'll still get married to me? Because we're I mean, we're already this far, you know, why can't we just hurry up. 

Bethany: And of course, nobody's gonna be like, Yeah, I'm lazy and don't do any of the chores. Yeah, I'm gonna be super strict and not let you spend any of my money. Like, some dudes will probably be straight up about it. But for the most part, they're gonna lie to you.

Zoe: I can't think of anyone who would straight up be like, Nah, I'm a mess. Unless it's someone that I'm platonically like, Acquainted.

London: There's like a whole thing of like, you never really know someone until you live with them. So like, I couldn't imagine just marrying so unless we're gonna be married and not living together then fine. But yes, but like, if you want to, like have a like, good relationship married and everything, you I don't understand how you could not live together in any capacity for a set period of time and actually, like, live in adult life, because that's how you're gonna see how do you guys handle finances? How do you guys carry, like, just little things even around the house? How do you guys interact? Like, it's, there's a lot.

Bethany: I feel like it kind of sets up the unhealthy dynamic, like, heterosexual dynamic between certain couples, because you're sending kids from living with their parents to living with a spouse. So like, you took this boy whose mom probably took care of him all his life, and then put him with this girl and he's gonna be okay, so she's going to take care of me in my life. And for the most part, she's been told that that's what her job as a wife is so she's going to buy into it. And it just really plays into the harmful narrative of your wife being your new mom. When I found out I was having a girl. The first thing somebody told me was that I was lucky because she had this quote, and it was your son is your son until he finds a wife but your daughter is your daughter for all of her life. And I was like, Wait, so you're raising your sons to replace you with their wives. That is so messed up like you're just raising your sons to specifically be a shitty husband.

Zoe: Oh god, in my first year of college, I had this kid that was like he was loaded. Like this kid was showing me photos of like his family taking family photos on their like customized like golf cart and like that kind of rich guy and he's like No, I like I've never learned how to make my bed like someone always did it for me like I never like how do you do laundry and I'm like, dude, like, it is not hard to do laundry, you put your clothes into the washer and you click on like, I cannot make it any more simple for you. totally clueless, like had no idea but then also was like the same person that put like vodka and a Brita filter and then was like, it's gonna make it super expensive vodka now and like, I think, I don't know, I think he ended up like puking in his British filter at some point to I don't know if that was like, you know, I mean, the moral of the story is, this kid was a dumbass. But like, there were other things that played into that. I don't know. Like, I think there's also such an era of just like privilege that comes with being, not being able to do just simple tasks that everyone should know how to do well before you move out. And it's like not saying that you have to go and make your kids do all of the things you know, when they are like six.

Bethany: Teacher him, god damn like skills.

Zoe: Teach them how to exist in the world and not be shitty. seems so easy. Because it starts with parents and trickles down.

London: Like parents are like the foundation where you're either gonna get your first good or bad sex ed sadly

Zoe: this kid that I was friends with in high school, her dad was my doctor. And he was like, you know, just like a normal PCP, like a primary care provider, and I didn't see him all that often because like, I remember being really sick and like I don't know pretty healthy kids. Like it's once a year like my yearly checkup, whatever. Super nice guy never had any qualms with him. But I became friends with his daughter and his daughter was like one of the sweetest people on Earth. And my mother, my friend, and I were like, sitting outside and we have like a little like, pop up pool or whatever. And it was summertime. So we're all sitting there, chillin, just talking, whatever. And somehow everyone over likes, always comes over to my house for like, sex ed talks, masturbation talks, like we just get into it. And this person who is the daughter of my doctor was like, Yeah, honestly, like, No, my dad's never taught me about anything like with sex ed, like, even like he prescribes my birth control. But like, he could never fathom it being like for sex, like, he knows it's for my periods. But like, that's it. And I just remember, like, my mom and I looking at each other and thinking, this is a doctor, this is a child of a doctor. But yeah, I just, it's wild. And like, even just from like, a medical perspective to the amount of doctors and like, practitioners, or just anyone who is, you know, experienced or like been in the medical field, like, the lack of education within is outstanding, even in the medical field, like, why are you talking about it, the, you know, I could talk for hours, just about, like, the whole entire medical system is and like, even just how we got to the place we are today, like, it was all through violence, like there is no part of the medical field that was not created the way that it was, like, if you ever want to learn more about that, you can look up the mothers of the gynecology, it's a really awful graphic, disgusting, it makes you want to like take a hot shower, scrub all your skin off story, but I am very thankful for those women who gave their literal lives so that we could have the things like the sun's position, and like the speculum, and like just basic surgery practices, because people literally died. Because of that, like or if they didn't die, they were very, very, very greatly harmed and like, I just everyday think about them. So it really

Bethany: So it really kind of makes you sick. Like when you think about how much women have gone through just to have the rights to the information about their bodies, not even the rights, their own bodies like shit, we're still fighting that but like just even being allowed to know about our own bodies was like such a fight. Like it was illegal at

Zoe: One time, like the Comstock law literally was like, you may not learn. I mean, it was also like you may not look at pornographic material. I don't know I I've taken a lot of classes in like the history of reproduction and like history of just reproductive rights and like just women's health and like uterine health in general and like, whoa, you know, like, and it's one of those things that like, I'll probably never stop learning because it's so interesting to me. Like right now I'm actually reading a book called Transition denied by Jane Fay, which talks a lot about like trans healthcare and how much that matters and how much just like totally deny trans folks just basic healthcare for no reason other than like, we hate trans people.

Bethany:We didn't even talk about how being transgender played into like sex education did any won't ever have the word transgender even mentioned in any of their….

London: I was brought up once. But the interesting thing is it wasn't an anthropology class and not in any type of health class. It was like a short article about it and that and that was one person who was intersex but like nothing other than that, I think that was interesting in itself. But…

Zoe: Yeah, I mean, my high school was like, we had a class of 500. And there was a few people who came out as trans within my school years. And like, even more so after we all graduated and like even with that, like the school never took care to even think about bringing up some sort of anything like we never even had like a talk about like pronouns, like what pronouns people use, and like, why we should respecting these and like, there was always like that awkward, like first day where like, you couldn't really correct your name. So then you had to be like, Hey, you just dead named me. And here's my real name. Like, I didn't know that was just wild to me, too. And then you'd have you know, the Snoopy is like, substitute teachers that are like, but you don't look like Anna or you don't look like Thomas or whatever. And it's like, because you're not. It's that simple. Like it literally it's not hard to understand. I don't know, I just yeah, that's another thing that just gets me here.

Bethany: We don't we don't talk about how a lot of disabilities affect your sex life either, like mental health affecting your sex life, like depression, anxiety, post traumatic stress disorder, or like physical disabilities as well. Like, how does someone being in a wheelchair affect how we have sex? If they can't feel from the waist down? Is that still gonna work for me? Like what? Like, you know, like, there's questions to be had there. It's like, these people exist. 

Zoe: Yeah,Also, just, like inherent like we think of people with disabilities is just like nonsexual, that's true, too. Like, they will never have sex and like, no one desires them, and they're not sexy. And it's just like, when did we decide that? You know.

Bethany: That's some eugenics bullshit!

London: No, yeah. And then one of the worst things about not being educated in those types of fields is the people who do have disabilities or people who are transgender, they are the ones who have to then deal with those questions. And it's usually from internet people who are like, what's going on with your body? And it's like, they shouldn't have to answer that. Like, that's not their responsibility. Honestly, we should be learning about that anyway. But even still, it's not on them. It's not a person in a wheelchair for you to go questioning. Do you have like, no, it's none of your business.

Zoe: Would you walk up to any other person? Like, how do you have sex?

Bethany: Or like the question that they always ask transgender people like? So do you still have a vagina or a penis? And I'm like, I'm sorry. Do you walk? Are you circumcised? How big are you? Like, I'm gonna start asking them some questions back guys. Like, do you just walk up to random people and go hey, like, what's your vagina look like? Like what you're talking about? There?

London: Just makes me so mad. I feel like people are weirdos for the like, asking that. Like you're the weirdo for asking that for wanting to know what somebody else has going on. Like you. Why do you want to know? Why are you surprised?

Bethany: Transgender people in the bathroom argument where it was like, Oh, well, I don't want to see a penis when I'm in the ladies. Restroom. I'm sorry. We have stalls in the ladies restroom. Why are you looking at a girl's penis anyway? Like, why are you looking in her goddamn stall to begin with? Like, I'm sorry, the one that sounds creepy is you sneaking up on what people got in their pants. Like, the person that's just trying to go pee is not the problem here.

Zoe: Right? That's an argument that has never made sense to me. Like in any context of like, you're, you're gonna argue where people pee. Okay, what about your own home bathroom? Do you have a ladies restroom and a men's restroom and your own damn home? Because I really don't think you do.

Bethany: And then they'll talk up and down like, oh, it's to protect them, protect the women from sexual assaults. And then it's like, Hey, can we do something about sexual assault by like police officers are on college campuses are like, at all and they're like now so actually, that segues me into a topic I wanted to mention, which is the daddy stitch. Have you guys heard of the daddy stitch? So the daddy stitch is a concept where after a mother gives birth to the father, the doctor will put an extra stitch in when he's sewing her back up. Yes, yes, my do your vagina was never like that to begin with. And they're not sewing parts that should be together. So most of the time when you have sex with your husband again someday it's excruciating and most of the time it tears you up.

Zoe: like, a higher chance for infection. You have a higher chance for complications, you have a higher chance to like to rip it accidentally because it's not supposed to be there in the first place.

Bethany: And it's just like the worst thing doctors decided like yes, I will. Like making this decision for this woman's body for the man in her life.

Zoe:It's also called the husband stitch I believe too, because I've always heard it as a husband stitch, but I know exactly. You're talking about Yeah, it's yeah, one of those cool things that like no one ever tells you about childbirth and just like birthing in general and like the sexism that plays into it. And like, keep in mind, this is something that is often like just, you never ask the person who's giving birth, if they want that extra stitch. It's always just something that's like, you can be like, Hey, do you want this?

Bethany: It's literally how that happens. It's like they're having conversations between your legs. Like, and that's just like, the most disgusting thing ever. And I imagine it's worse again, for black women, because let's talk about fucking racism in the medical field. But I don't know, I was super lucky that I had a doctor that didn't offer one. But two, I feel like if somebody offered my husband one, he would have flipped out. And I swear to God, if somebody was like, Hey, do you want a daddy stitch he would have like, raged in the middle of the hospital. So it's probably for the best that they didn't. I mean, I haven't been in that situation. But I feel like you would almost feel like an assault, like you're trusting these people to take care of you while you're in this vulnerable position for them to just do something like that to you just for entirely sexual purposes.

Zoe: I mean, in all like intents and purposes, it is, I would consider it a form of sexual violence. You know, the medical field will never ever, ever react recognize it as a form of sexual violence, you know, you'll never have them ever admit that it was ever a bad thing.

Bethany: And it's just like, they keep so much away from pregnant women as it is. It's so funny that like, like London said, in such a heteronormative society, they're so anti talking about pregnancy. I'm like, your ideal little nuclear family is like mommy, daddy, two kids, you know, well, that means she's gonna have to have a baby at some point, like you talk to people about actual aspects of pregnancy, like you talk about your placenta, or mucus plugs are like, what the water breaking actually feels like, or the fact that you like bleed for like six weeks nonstop afterward, or just like a million other things that just don't talk about.

Zoe: There's an Instagram account that I follow, who like does a really, really good job just talking about, like, post birth experiences and like, whole, like, the whole, like, highest packs in your underwear, because you're literally so much in, like, You're in so much pain that you just gotta like, straight up, put an ice pack in your panties. And I hate the word panties. But I'm using this context. But like, that's a thing. And like, people have to teach you how to like properly, like freeze, like an ice pad. So that you can like wearing it and it will freeze off your goal. You know what I mean? And like, that's just, there's so many things that we people just don't talk about, like, I know my cousin, who she was very, very young, when she gave birth, being really, really young and being unmarried, I think opens up just a whole other slew of just like complications and issues and like just things that are not being discussed properly. And like a whole other sense of like, othering, because then you know, you're admitted, and you're like, under 18. And they're like, you're gonna be an awful parent. And it's like, you're probably not gonna be like, MTV definitely ruined us on that part.

London: This is just the best form of birth control I've ever had for a patient that needs to be happening like high school because this is what we need like someone coming in and being like, Hey, by the way this can happen after you give birth because…

Bethany: It does every time it's not happen. Also, up your pants for the rest of your life. After you have a baby, whether you have a C section or not, that has nothing to do with the baby exiting the vaginal canal that has to do with at nine months, the baby's putting pressure on the bottom of your like all of that. And so your urethra stretches. So many people say the healing process is worse than actually giving birth.

Zoe: Yeah, she ripped so badly that she had to take like, I think like Epsom baths like three to four times a day for like a couple of weeks. And she's like, Dude, I don't know what's happening. I'm literally like bleeding clots the size of cough balls, and I don't know what to do. And like, this is just normal. My doctor told me it's normal. And like, it's, it's wild.

Bethany: So at the hospital, they gave me a little baggie of like the super pads, right? And I tried to ask for more when I left and they were like, No, you don't need anymore. After a day of bleeding. After a day, they decided I didn't need any more. So okay, so you guys are going to hear the real crude like DIY version of this. So you can't use regular pads because they're just not big enough. So I had to go to the store and buy like, you know, like those Puppy Training pads. Actually, the ones that give you at the hospital aren't that much different, surprisingly it's like they hand you like a giant Puppy Training pet anyway, which is how I got the idea. And I literally bought puppy training pants to put in like underwear to try and catch all of them and they've just now started creating like pad ice packs like you just met when I was pregnant and that wasn't that long ago like I said my kids only she's gonna be four in a couple months like so not even that long ago and I just now seeing stuff you can find like the packs now. For mommies, they have boxes where it's like nipple care and vaginal care. But back in the day, nobody gave a shit. And whenever people are like, oh, what should I get so and so for their baby shower, I'm like, don't get a goddamn thing for that baby. Because everyone else is buying her giant ass monster pads, you buy her, like all the things that she's going to need, because she's gonna pop out that baby and everyone's gonna be like, oh, let's take care of the baby, the baby. But really, mom's over here. Like she just went through a huge major body change that her body's never really going to come back from. And they just like, kind of leave her to suffer.

London: Yeah, yeah. And they expect her to suffer in silence. And if she does say anything, then she's a bad mom. It takes.

Bethany: It takes a village that doesn't want to help.

Zoe: Yeah, it takes a village, but the village is the mom. Yeah, I have never understood it too. And like, you know, I have so much respect for single parents who literally had to do it all alone. And like, you're just you're just doing it and like, you don't get a break, you know, and like, I don't know, my mom was a single mom. And like, she had the help of my grandparents, and, you know, her, her grandparents, my great grandparents, but like, I can't imagine how she did it. And like, you know, she was back to work and the normal amount of time, but like, I'm like, I could not be me, could not be me. But also, I think one of the reasons is that and I can't remember if this is confirmed or not by her doctor, because she got her epidural so late, it gave her hemorrhoids for the rest of her life. I'm so sorry that I'm saying that out loud about my mother, my poor. Sorry about that. So I don't feel like

Bethany: I didn't know, I could totally see the logic behind that though. Because you get hemorrhoids from deep pressure down there. And so if you can't feel it with the epidural, you're probably just giving it all you got and hoping for the best.

Zoe: She was like, I was just pushing. I didn't know what I was pushing. But I was just, I just took my best guess on whatever muscle I could flex at that point. 

Bethany: Yeah, oh, speaking of pushing, everybody likes to talk about the pooping on the table thing. Not as common as people like to act like it is totally not as big of a deal as that like to act like it is. Most of the time when mom poops on the table they have it cleaned up so fast. You didn't notice because they're trying to keep it like a clean, sterile environment. Like it's a hospital. That was something people always mentioned. They were obsessed with that. Oh, are you scared? You're gonna poop on the table? I mean, I'm pushing a baby out of my fricking vagina. I feel like I'm gonna have better concerns than whether or not I poop on the goddamn table. 

Zoe: One of the things that always weirded me out to, I shouldn't say weirded me out with one of those like, this is great birth control was like, after you give birth to your baby, you have to deliver the placenta, like you're just not done pushing.

Bethany: You don't even feel it.

Zoe: Really, that's good!

Bethany: So the placenta is like made of JellO. So it's how the baby is, like an elementary explanation. It's like how the baby gets like the blood in the nutrients and shit out your body. So it's mostly liquid, some people will straight up. Like they put it in a bag and dry the whole thing out instead of just drying the umbilical cord out and falling off. Especially for premature babies. There are benefits for leaving the placenta attached for a while because there's so much blood in there. And premature babies are so light as it is, you want all the blood to flow back into the right and so it's like a it's like a health like a not like a dry the placenta and eat it type thing. It's like they put it in the salt and they throw it away like they do the umbilical cord but they put it in like saltwater to try it out. So it's more of a natural detachment for the baby. But personally, I just had my husband cut the cord the old fashioned way.

Zoe: Yeah know, I've always had it in my mind is like, like, that thing doesn't move, you know, at least like a baby. You have someone who's there ready to kind of like, help it out. 

Bethany: Oh no

Zoe: What happened?

Bethany: So the movie is worse, actually. So the strangest sensation of my entire life. So most of the time babies don't take their big breath until they're all the way out. No, she was up and moving while she was still halfway in me. No. Yeah, so she was still so like her legs were still inside me. And she starts moving and grabbing. And I was like, oh my god, what is going on? Like, the strangest thing. So know that they don't help you. Most of the time. They're either sleeping or they're like What the fuck is going on? Like this is a whole new world to them. So you have to remember, your cervix has already stretched out from the baby passing through anyway. Right and the placenta is super soft and super mushy. I mean, I technically had to do a little push. Although for me, I'll admit the pushing wasn't the worst part at all. Like I was super lucky though. So despite the fact that it was like super long labor, I pushed the baby out for like 15 minutes of actual pushing. Yeah, that hurt but the contractions hurt more. It's like the contractions hurt inside so I could so much to the point where I could barely feel like the baby going out anyway. They at the same time act like it's super horrible and awful. but also like you're supposed to get over it. And it's like, it's the parts that everyone acted like were the worst parts weren't. And obviously, everybody's super different, like some people push for push for days, you know? It's definitely different. It's a very different experience. Like, it's like a whole body experience, like everything's in it. I don't even know if I could describe it. I don't even have good words, like, yeah, the biological thing does kick in, and you don't really remember it that well. You do kind of forget, like how bad it was, especially once they hand it to you. And all your little hormones start going off. It's like we got you boo, like, well, you don't need to remember.

Zoe: See, that's all it scared me. Because there's so many people that I know that have their first kid and they were like, that was the worst experience ever. Then they like, like, a baby. Do it again. And it's like.

Bethany: I couldn't tell you how I felt at the time. Like, my emotional responses to being in pain. I could not tell you the pain.

London: Yeah, but your body was not like, focused on memorizing anything. We're just like, Okay, let's get out of here.

Bethany: That's probably a great reason why that probably is exactly the reason why because it's like, there's only so much your brain can hold on to.

Zoe: You know, similar to a trauma response. If something hurts too much. Like your brain isn't gonna be like, buddy, let's keep this in here forever. Like, let's remember this pain, like it's gonna be like, actually, no, we want happiness.

Bethany: Yeah, the part I remember most vividly actually, is they take you to the bathroom to make sure you can still go pee afterward. And when they're in there, the little nurse always asks and sees if you're abused. Well, it's actually a brilliant idea. Is it daddy's not gonna go in there with you to make sure you can pay. And so they're like, Okay, like, is everything okay? At home? They don't ask for it. Like, are you being abused? Alexa, do you feel like you've got a lot of support at home? Like, do you think your husband's supportive? Now my husband just held me while I was doing this? So like, yeah, he's fine. Um, and then I remember getting put in the wheelchair. And I was so glad when they finally put me in the wheelchair. Because suddenly, it was like, the most tired you've ever been in your entire life. And then they handed me the baby. I was like, I'm not sure I'm not going to drop her. It was like being crossfaded as hell but I was completely sober. And I'm just like, sitting there like this, like in the wheelchair like, whoa, gonna pass out. But that's the second thing that kicks in. The first thing that kicks in after having a baby is you want to eat everything in sight. Like to the point where the doctors bring you like little lunch baggies after you give birth. Like if it's between meals, because like you just imagine, like the most difficult marathon you ever like ran in your life. You're just like, you want to eat everything. And then after you've eaten everything, you're like, I need to sleep right now.

Zoe: Thank you, everyone, for listening. I think that is all the time that we have right now. But we will always be back with more from weed to sex incarceration, to just general stuff that we want to talk about. So there's always more you can follow on Instagram at necessarily behavior on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, wherever you get your social media content. And our website is www.dot.necessary behavior.com. We'd love to see you over there and we hope that you have a wonderful day.